BSG S3 3x01 & 3x02 thoughts...

[samvara]

Well, well, well.

Well.

Loved the Kara thread; thought playing the munchkin was an unbearably apt and cruel thing to do. Am interested in where Leoben gets his hardon for Kara – Stockholm Syndrome? I don’t get the little hand hold at the end – this is not the act of a woman who has killed Leoben five times in a row over four months.

*loved* Sharon and Adama. Loved it.

Not too keen on Lee. He is a deeply moral man and for him to just give up and be someone who can only function when he has a war doesn’t do justice to the person I thought he was.

Love Tigh, he’s hard and obsessed and utterly focussed. I don’t like him as a person but the character is great.

Interested in the Cylon take on what their mission is. It sounds like Boomer and Six managed to pitch the end of immediate hostilities but didn’t in any way manage to convey a vision where humans and Cylons actually talk to each other. The Cylons turned up as an invading force and seem to have no concept of humans as potential equals. In which case what on earth are they trying to achieve?

Is the vision of human/Cylon relations where humans behave like Centurions?

They need Adama desperately.

Feel a lot of the war commentary is a bit on the cheap side. We already know this, guys, we’ve watched the Americans doing it for years. We know people are stupid and pretty and short-sighted and that it doesn’t work.

Loved the Roslyn/Zarek exchange

Comments

Re: Comments on Comments

[black-samvara.livejournal.com]

Hi! Welcome to the party.

I'm going to have to go back and watch Flesh and Bone because I have this memory of her going to see Leoben and him already knowing who she was and that being significant. I see his current attachment to her as being a result of their intense exchange.

What I loved about that episode (among many things) is that Starbuck goes from regarding Leoben as a thing, to seeing him as a person. She tries to save his life because she's come to understand that he is alive and he is a person and she values that.

I think back in Flesh and Bone he responded to her being intensely emotional, connecting with him and understanding him by deciding they have this mystical connection to each other.

I also agree with you on her status with the Cylons, I think the Cylons have Plans for Starbuck, I think she is someone on their radar, someone with a Purpose.

My take on Leoben is based on the fact that he has designed this little love-nest and is enacting a relationship at her and has been for four months. He talks to her about how she is going to come to her senses and realise she loves him and it speaks to me of freaky obsession.

Brainwashing usually involves things like changing a persons environment (CHECK), sleep patterns (CHECK), clothes (CHECK), food (CHECK), isolating them (CHECK), exposing them to indoctrination (CHECK).

He isn't relating to her as a person, he's relating to her as a thing. To me that makes the way he treats her really creepy.

This is BEAUTIFULLY ironic given the sequence in Flesh and Bone.

Re: Comments on Comments

[divineway.livejournal.com]

I have to watch Flesh and Bone again, there's so much there that relates here.

I have this memory of her going to see Leoben and him already knowing who she was and that being significant.

Yes, he knew who she was but not what she looked like. I've noticed that civilians don't know who significant people (to us) are. Leoben's reaction to Kara initially is one of genuine "I knew that was you but I wasn't sure."

connecting with him and understanding him by deciding they have this mystical connection to each other.

Is the initial mystical connection not the basis of love. Is it not possible for her to feel for his soul? Kara saw him as a person which could suggest she is capable of loving him. She prayed for him. I found that significant. Who else does she pray for on screen other than herself and now Kayce. That is not to say holding her hostage will result in her loving him. It only winds up with him dead. LOL

I agree that Kara's being brainwashed. That I have no doubt and he does relate to her as a "thing" which puts him on my crazee scale. Her isolation is for a bigger purpose than just brainwashing. I maintain that she is kept there for her own good because of the "plan." That sounds so evil *mwhahahaha*

No, you are not freaking me out! I only hope I am being coherent! BSG tends to make me babble!

Re: Comments on Comments

[black-samvara.livejournal.com]

The coolness of this is that it brings us back to what vegetariansushi and I was on about earlier.

As people, the Cylons are very young and represent a wide range of human behaviours. What I see in Leoben is him getting so hooked on Starbuck's response to him in Flesh and Bone that he has fixated on her.

He's recognised there was a connection and has translated that in his head to there HAVING to be a connection now and always. Ironically, in trying to force it on her he's denying her personhood in exactly the same way she did, right down to the psychological torture.

Darn I love this show.

Re: Comments on Comments

[divineway.livejournal.com]

the Cylons are very young and represent a wide range of human behaviours.

he's denying her personhood in exactly the same way she did

In their youth they are still quite primal. Denying the Kara's personhood goes beyond Leobuck. In ordering the execution they don't see them as people but as things. At any moment, they could go back to the original plan and kill them all. Cavil's suggestion that reducing the human numbers to make them more manageable is scary.

Human's are things, pets even, and some of us Leoben really love our pets.

I totally love this show too, as well as this conversation.