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cupidsbow was talking about Genderfuck in Stargate Atlantis which is a fabulously interesting topic and brings up a lot of questions about whether gendered behaviour is about the brain or the bits.
Genderfuck fics have certain pitfalls...
The most obvious being making some guy a girl and having them spontaneously start doing 'girl things'. It’s not so much that I think this is wrong, as I think it is sometimes written clumsily. We all know how to parody the opposite gender. It doesn't seem unlikely that a gender-swapped person would instantly (if erratically) adopt some behaviours of said gender. This rather reminds me of the way some 17 year old guys discover gay nightclubs and suddenly turn into Mae West.
The most interesting (to me) being pronoun use by the gender-swapee as I tend to interpret this as a measure of the extent to which they are identifying with a particular gender. As a literary device, a male person in a female body identifying as ‘he’ doesn’t seem problematic and using ‘she’ without engaging with what that means in terms of gender identity leaves a great, gaping logic hole in a fic.
The most painful being making some guy a girl and not distinguishing between being freaked out by being changed and misogyny. I think hating being a woman because EWW! Woman is very different to hating being subject to something you didn’t ask for or consent to. Alas, sometimes this translates to fic where a Generic Male Person becomes a Hot Female Person, is embarrassed, has to wear feminine clothes, has hormone problems, gets sexually harassed, paints his/her nails, has a period and suddenly realises that they must have been bi because Generic Male Love Interest is disturbingly and strangely hot. I get why writers would like to make men dance through hoops that a lot of woman jump through regularly... but all at once?
Genderfuck fics are really interesting...
Genderfuck fic tends to be heavy on the porn and understandably so; if you’re attracted to the opposite sex then exactly what they experience is always going to be a scintillating question. This is an opportunity to talk about how sexuality is constructed (and to write porn). Do you change your sexual behaviour because you’re different? How much? Do your sexual preferences change? How come people write fics where energetically straight men in female bodies start fantasising about being fucked by other energetically straight men?
This is also a great way to look at how much of our behaviours are gendered. Would your personal space be different? How would you treat the opposite sex? What do you think you’re capable of emotionally and physically? How do you want other people to treat you?
It asks the question am I my body or my brain? Some genderfuck fics will have characters who assimilate rapidly and other fics will feature people who will never, ever be able to identify in any way with, or live comfortably in a body that doesn’t match their primary gender identity. I’m kinda surprised I’m not seeing never really identified as a man – how nice to finally be a woman stories
Genderswap
Unlocked by eighth-horizon (Sam/Dean) Wincest NC-17 which really has to be read after Immutable Law to make sense. I love this for the way Dean conceptualises (and understandably so) girl!Sam as a completely separate person from boy!Sam. The dynamics of why they love each other and how they are able to give/receive it are complex and make me very happy. It's also very hot.
Dean turned around and stared. “Don’t do that,” he said.
“Do what?”
“Put on the act,” Dean said. “It’s like you fuckin’ want to be her.”
This One Time, In a Michelle Pfeiffer Movie ... by trollprincess (Sam/Dean) Wincest NC-17. This I love for being lighthearted and silly. It's the boys in character (-ish) being bratty, self absorbed, competitive, awkward and horny.
Dean shrugs as he deals out the cards for a round of poker. "Would you believe petty criminal's honor?"
"No, but I guess I'll have to take what I can get," she mutters, picking up her cards.
Snippets by goddessleila (Sam/Dean) Wincest NC-17. This is a series of snippets, not telling a single story. Some of them are girl!Sam and how that works with him adapting. I love it for the way that Sam's identity adapts to include Sam=girl but still Sam=brother.
Dean didn't treat him like a sister. Dean treated him like his brother, and that made all the difference.
A Change in the Water by sanyin (Sam/Dean, John) Wincest NC-17. The way Dean relates to his body is rich and sensual - it's influenced by how he gets turned into a girl but it doesn't detract from how he relates to it. It's starkly contrasted to John failing to cope with the change and Dean failing to understand why that might be. I love it for showing Dean both embracing it and failing to understand what some of those changes mean for him.
The D Word by angstslashhope (Dean/Gals from The L Word) NC-17. I love this for Dean's initial freak out and then utter hedonism when he works out it Just. Doesn't. Matter. I love it for Sam's twitchy reactions and how he gets this whole 'sister' thing in his head which is partly Dean winding him up and partly Sam getting trapped by gender roles in his own head.
“I should get one of those shirts,” Dean says, sprawled on one of Jenny’s loungers, talking around a mouthful of sandwich. “You know – Nobody knows I’m a lesbian.”
Sam snorts, casting a critical eye over Dean’s fluffy-short hair, the jeans, the flannel shirt, then takes another swig of iced tea and turns over another useless printout. “Don’t think that’s likely to be the case. Anyway, Help me, I’ve fallen and I can’t find my dick! would be a bit more appropriate, don’t you think?”
Bodyswap:
I like these for the humour, the porn and the sibling rivalry. There's also this great dynamic where the body is unfamiliar but not, because they've known each other all their lives. Issues of who am I? are mixed up with I know you - who are you?; there are a lot of preconceptions being challenged.
There's gotta be a punch line in here somewhere by lyra-wing (Sam/Dean) Wincest NC-17.
And it's his own face. Dean suddenly realizes why so many cops give him such a hard time. How could anyone trust a grin like that?
Turn It Over And by monkiedude (Sam/Dean) Wincest NC-17.
Sam using his knowledge of his own body against Dean was, Dean felt, nevertheless preferable to what Sam was doing just then: pushing every single one of Dean's buttons, making Dean literally squirm, forcing Dean to admit that he was wrong, wrong, wrong about Sam not being able to use Dean's body as well as Dean could use Sam's. If Dean's brain wasn't completely in his pants, he would've been impressed despite himself at Sam's skills at psychological warfare.
Flip It Back Over by ethrosdemon (remix of Turn It Over And)
Dean as him is what Sam would look like if he was some other guy, some person like Dean, who made part of his charm the fact that he's so ridiculously self-confident. Sam's watching himself if he had maybe been the first born, the one who remembers mom, the one who dad always just expected to do everything right on the first try because he did.
a little superstitious now by estrella30 (Sam/Dean) NC-17. I love this for being funny and snarky but also because it neatly plays off the OMG someone else's body - must play with OMG my BROTHER'S body - must freak the hell out dynamic.
cupidsbow was talking about Genderfuck in Stargate Atlantis which is a fabulously interesting topic and brings up a lot of questions about whether gendered behaviour is about the brain or the bits. Genderfuck fics have certain pitfalls...
The most obvious being making some guy a girl and having them spontaneously start doing 'girl things'. It’s not so much that I think this is wrong, as I think it is sometimes written clumsily. We all know how to parody the opposite gender. It doesn't seem unlikely that a gender-swapped person would instantly (if erratically) adopt some behaviours of said gender. This rather reminds me of the way some 17 year old guys discover gay nightclubs and suddenly turn into Mae West.
The most interesting (to me) being pronoun use by the gender-swapee as I tend to interpret this as a measure of the extent to which they are identifying with a particular gender. As a literary device, a male person in a female body identifying as ‘he’ doesn’t seem problematic and using ‘she’ without engaging with what that means in terms of gender identity leaves a great, gaping logic hole in a fic.
The most painful being making some guy a girl and not distinguishing between being freaked out by being changed and misogyny. I think hating being a woman because EWW! Woman is very different to hating being subject to something you didn’t ask for or consent to. Alas, sometimes this translates to fic where a Generic Male Person becomes a Hot Female Person, is embarrassed, has to wear feminine clothes, has hormone problems, gets sexually harassed, paints his/her nails, has a period and suddenly realises that they must have been bi because Generic Male Love Interest is disturbingly and strangely hot. I get why writers would like to make men dance through hoops that a lot of woman jump through regularly... but all at once?
Genderfuck fics are really interesting...
Genderfuck fic tends to be heavy on the porn and understandably so; if you’re attracted to the opposite sex then exactly what they experience is always going to be a scintillating question. This is an opportunity to talk about how sexuality is constructed (and to write porn). Do you change your sexual behaviour because you’re different? How much? Do your sexual preferences change? How come people write fics where energetically straight men in female bodies start fantasising about being fucked by other energetically straight men?
This is also a great way to look at how much of our behaviours are gendered. Would your personal space be different? How would you treat the opposite sex? What do you think you’re capable of emotionally and physically? How do you want other people to treat you?
It asks the question am I my body or my brain? Some genderfuck fics will have characters who assimilate rapidly and other fics will feature people who will never, ever be able to identify in any way with, or live comfortably in a body that doesn’t match their primary gender identity. I’m kinda surprised I’m not seeing never really identified as a man – how nice to finally be a woman stories
Genderswap
Unlocked by eighth-horizon (Sam/Dean) Wincest NC-17 which really has to be read after Immutable Law to make sense. I love this for the way Dean conceptualises (and understandably so) girl!Sam as a completely separate person from boy!Sam. The dynamics of why they love each other and how they are able to give/receive it are complex and make me very happy. It's also very hot.
Dean turned around and stared. “Don’t do that,” he said.
“Do what?”
“Put on the act,” Dean said. “It’s like you fuckin’ want to be her.”
This One Time, In a Michelle Pfeiffer Movie ... by trollprincess (Sam/Dean) Wincest NC-17. This I love for being lighthearted and silly. It's the boys in character (-ish) being bratty, self absorbed, competitive, awkward and horny.
Dean shrugs as he deals out the cards for a round of poker. "Would you believe petty criminal's honor?"
"No, but I guess I'll have to take what I can get," she mutters, picking up her cards.
Snippets by goddessleila (Sam/Dean) Wincest NC-17. This is a series of snippets, not telling a single story. Some of them are girl!Sam and how that works with him adapting. I love it for the way that Sam's identity adapts to include Sam=girl but still Sam=brother.
Dean didn't treat him like a sister. Dean treated him like his brother, and that made all the difference.
A Change in the Water by sanyin (Sam/Dean, John) Wincest NC-17. The way Dean relates to his body is rich and sensual - it's influenced by how he gets turned into a girl but it doesn't detract from how he relates to it. It's starkly contrasted to John failing to cope with the change and Dean failing to understand why that might be. I love it for showing Dean both embracing it and failing to understand what some of those changes mean for him.
The D Word by angstslashhope (Dean/Gals from The L Word) NC-17. I love this for Dean's initial freak out and then utter hedonism when he works out it Just. Doesn't. Matter. I love it for Sam's twitchy reactions and how he gets this whole 'sister' thing in his head which is partly Dean winding him up and partly Sam getting trapped by gender roles in his own head.
“I should get one of those shirts,” Dean says, sprawled on one of Jenny’s loungers, talking around a mouthful of sandwich. “You know – Nobody knows I’m a lesbian.”
Sam snorts, casting a critical eye over Dean’s fluffy-short hair, the jeans, the flannel shirt, then takes another swig of iced tea and turns over another useless printout. “Don’t think that’s likely to be the case. Anyway, Help me, I’ve fallen and I can’t find my dick! would be a bit more appropriate, don’t you think?”
Bodyswap:
I like these for the humour, the porn and the sibling rivalry. There's also this great dynamic where the body is unfamiliar but not, because they've known each other all their lives. Issues of who am I? are mixed up with I know you - who are you?; there are a lot of preconceptions being challenged.
There's gotta be a punch line in here somewhere by lyra-wing (Sam/Dean) Wincest NC-17.
And it's his own face. Dean suddenly realizes why so many cops give him such a hard time. How could anyone trust a grin like that?
Turn It Over And by monkiedude (Sam/Dean) Wincest NC-17.
Sam using his knowledge of his own body against Dean was, Dean felt, nevertheless preferable to what Sam was doing just then: pushing every single one of Dean's buttons, making Dean literally squirm, forcing Dean to admit that he was wrong, wrong, wrong about Sam not being able to use Dean's body as well as Dean could use Sam's. If Dean's brain wasn't completely in his pants, he would've been impressed despite himself at Sam's skills at psychological warfare.
Flip It Back Over by ethrosdemon (remix of Turn It Over And)
Dean as him is what Sam would look like if he was some other guy, some person like Dean, who made part of his charm the fact that he's so ridiculously self-confident. Sam's watching himself if he had maybe been the first born, the one who remembers mom, the one who dad always just expected to do everything right on the first try because he did.
a little superstitious now by estrella30 (Sam/Dean) NC-17. I love this for being funny and snarky but also because it neatly plays off the OMG someone else's body - must play with OMG my BROTHER'S body - must freak the hell out dynamic.
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I was just wondering if I should add it in - I love the way Dean is all relaxed and makes jokes about losing his dick.
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